All times are UTC





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: The Basic Guide for Playing Extreme Difficulty
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:24 pm 
Offline
Power User

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:25 am
Posts: 1778
Location: Earth
YouTD Score: 5
I was going to update my other topic but most of the strategies I used in the previous version don't work on Extreme. This mode requires a different style of play. Although I am still not sure is it just extreme mode or is every mode harder in 3.1? I can't figure out what it is but it seems like towers do smaller best hits on the scoreboard/creeps take longer time to kill. Can an admin tell me if I'm imagining things or not? Medium difficulty in 3.1 almost seems like last version's hard.

I'll try to organize this better than my last topic lol.

Table of Contents
1. Towers
2. Consumables
3. Items
4. Strategies


1. Towers

A) Support towers

I'm going to talk about support first because support towers are your best friends in Extreme. You need to have about 4 out of 5 towers dedicated to support, if not more. Creeps are now so strong that it might take your carry tower 10 to 20 shots to kill one Normal creep after level 100. If you don't have creeps slowed/stunned to a crawl then you will lose.

The dilemma with support is having towers that can stun/immobilize IMMUNE creeps. Options:

Sacred Altar
Forest Amazon
Rooting Chasm
Steel Trap
Grabo Bot
Circle of Wind
Wind Totem
Frosty Rock
Frozen Wyrm

There's probably a few more in Astral, Darkness, Fire but I can't think of anything right now. You should still not forget towers that only stun nonimmune creeps because some of them are very powerful, such as Icy Spires, Solar Conductor, etc... the_heaven mentioned below that cold troll is really powerful paired up with other slow/stun ice towers late game.

So based on this list unfortunately you MUST use either Nature, Iron, Storm, or Ice in order to stun or immobilize immune creeps.

Lastly, micro your support towers! Just having them pewpewing random crap is not enough anymore. You need to hotkey them, preferably have multiple groups of them hotkeyed, so you can micro them at 2 or 3 creeps simultaneously. You don't want them all hitting 1 creep while the others run by.

B) Choosing a carry tower:

I've tried every one of the big 5 carry towers from last version and none of them seem to cut it anymore, which is scary. If you love physical damage, your best bet is Astral Healing Shrine + Sun Paladin + Solar Emitter. Otherwise, I noticed that with the crazy fast armor/hp increase in creeps as the game progresses in Extreme, it's a lot better to rely on hybrid towers that deal decent spell + physical damage rather than towers that specialize in one of the two categories. You'll get lower best hits / multicrits, but your carry tower will be able to handle a wider variety of wave types.

I don't think it would be feasible to have 2 carry towers just because creeps have so much hp in Extreme that you need all the items you can get, but if you're splitting kills between two towers, that means you'll have to split seekers oils between those two towers, which means less/worse items. The same problem existed last version in hard, but you could get away with 2 carries because creeps didn't scale in hp / armor as fast.

Below is a hybrid list of lategame carry towers you should consider.

Hybrid Carry Towers:
Nature- Bonk, Huntress, Garden of Eden
Astral- haven't tried as main yet. I'm sure Vol'jin is awesome here. Divine Priest, Warrior of Light, Star Watcher, Ancient Owlbear.
Darkness- Dreadlord, Soul Vault
Ice- Frozen Spirit (low physical damage yes but it's probably your best bet). Also try Icy Spires as a carry. It doesn't do spell damage but the % damage is excellent against any non immunes, and physical damage is better than Frozen Spirit's.
Storm- Red Lightning Conductor (same as Frozen Spirit), haven't tried Harpy yet, she could be good.
Iron- Golden Queen. Marine or Sniper? Lol, nothing great for iron.
Fire- Fire Battery, Fire Lord, Living Volcano

Also, some new and updated towers that have carry potential. They aren't hybrids, but these are great midgame and stay solid lategame:
Vulshok - yep I was wrong sorry for giving you a hard time boekie. +3% attack speed Special on Vulshok made him grow a lot faster, so he's now a pretty strong carry tower if you get him early.
Zealot - Need to have deep pockets to set up because you need expensive towers around him. Also Zeal only works for at most 6 towers in the current version instead of 8 like it should. Even so Zealot's a decent tower with great lategame potential when you get more slow towers so he can max out on Zeal / Phase Blade.
Gatling Gun - If you like building near the spawn point and sending waves fast, try this tower out. You can get huge bonus damage on it if you keep sending out waves. Even going one wave at a time, this tower is now worth making your carry through level 120. Great update on it.


2. Consumables

Unfortunately being risk loving does not work in Extreme. I learned this the hard way by converting my oils into a few lucky seekers oils early in one game and then leaking massively because I didn't have enough dps. Theoretically you could still get away with converting all your dps oils trying to get an early seekers, but you'd have to get incredibly lucky with wave types.

Instead, I've now become risk averse! Yeah... I know it's ridiculous. I use dmg/crit/spell dmg oils as early as I can. It helps having a plan - at least know which tower you'll replace to be your carry later on, and pump oils into it early. I still convert force books, food, exp oils, mana oils, and sometimes attack speed oils. Why attack speed oils? It just depends on what carry you'll be using. If you're going to use Huntress you'll already have such a huge increase in attack speed, you'd be better off converting your attack speed oils to get some more damage/spell damage/crit.

The big change I've done is I now consider bounty oils valuable. Since the script now saves partial gold values and accumulates them into more gold, and since incoming in Extreme mode is insanely difficult, bounty oils are now your friends. Use them immediately on your strongest tower. You're going to need every last gold coin you can get. However, I still urge caution about using divine bounty oils. Unless you know you always have income problems, I suggest you convert those divine bounty oils into a unique consumable.


3. Items

My item philosophy is now more risk averse as well. If you watch my extreme 360 replay, you'll see that at about level 60 I had gotten a a few decent item find/quality items but in about 3 out of 4 waves I was using a bloodthirsty axe and the hammer that gives you 100% chance to crit every 5 hits. You're going to need to juggle your items a lot in Extreme. You won't be able to get away with item find/quality items on your carry all the time.

Consider the tradeoff: if your carry has dps items, it gets kills faster, and it gets more kills. Lategame when you have bonus item find/quality on it from seekers oils, you want your carry to get as many kills as possible.

On the other hand, if your carry has item find/quality items, it gets more/better items, but it will get less kills. This is the problem I've often experienced: my carry tower ceases being my carry because more than half the kills are being stolen by other towers. This is good because other other towers are getting experience, but this is bad because your average item find/quality on kill is being diluted. In the long run, item find/quality is more important than experience on support towers. In fact, with the right items you can quickly level up your support towers.

Conclusion: Balance your item find/quality and dps items. Even if you are not struggling through waves, pay attention to which tower(s) are getting the most kills. If your carry is losing a lot of kills to another tower, you may need to give it some dps items. Keep in mind that this is only a mid and lategame problem. Early game you want at least a few towers leveling up high so you can get some strong support towers mid game. Also early game all your towers have equal item find/quality, so it doesn't matter which one gets the kills.


4. Strategies

I'm not qualified to talk about strategies in depth since I've only beaten Extreme with one strategy. :lol: But if you guys want to contribute your own strategies that you've found successful, I can add them here.

I used Naga Siren, Ice + Nature. Later I got iron, astral, and darkness.
-aim for at least 3 rooting chasms, and keep them hotkeyed. They are worth upgrading and leveling because eventually you will replace them with strong support towers like Frozen Amazon, which will benefit from a high level.
-early game always nice to have a plant. Even if it is not op anymore, the fast exp gain is great. I typically level it to level 10-15 and then replace with a tower more useful with Naga Siren.
-if you get frosty rocks or their upgraded versions in random mode, build them. They are very good with Naga Siren.
-Annoyed Tree is one of the best early - midgame carries with nature for Siren.
-Furbolg is actually much better than Jungle Stalker with Siren.
-Huntress may be even better than furbolg! Her abilities are all triggered, so she gets along nicely with Siren.
-Take advantage of all the new cheap ice towers that have trigger chances: ice whelp, cold troll, frost root, and there's probably a few more I haven't tried yet.

In general, spam towers like crazy when you see an armored boss on the horizon. Chasms don't affect bosses, and early game armored on Extreme is one tough cookie.

Thanks for reading,

<3,

Nubz

_________________
<Nubz> i wanna have my own farm
<Nubz> where i can grow all my own foods
<Nubz> and have my own animals
<@mOck_> you just want that stuff to lure little children over with a petting zoo
<@mOck_> i know your tactic


Last edited by Nubz on Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing Extreme Difficulty
PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:23 pm 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:10 pm
Posts: 61
you forgot sth: you need time, luck and many attempts..

e.g. in 60% of the games you may leak bosses from 12-40 in extreme totally random. or some ridiculos slow-aura mass waves.
and you should really tryout the blizzard-troll in mid/late when you got some other freeze towers in addition (frozen wyrm+well+ icy flower or astral/nature triggerchance-aura). if you are itemlucky and get like 4*pandadress this tower is gg no re (aoe-permastun for sure for non-immune)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing Extreme Difficulty
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:44 am 
Offline
Power User

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:25 am
Posts: 1778
Location: Earth
YouTD Score: 5
The_heaven wrote:
e.g. in 60% of the games you may leak bosses from 12-40 in extreme totally random. or some ridiculous slow-aura mass waves.


I did leak bosses AND masses in the first 40 levels. And I still won. I didn't convert any oils into seekers oils for the first 60 levels, I didn't get a spellbook till about level 250 and workbench till about level 300, no mining pick or lamp. I did have a +24% item quality mantle and pirate map mid game, but had to use dps items to survive. That's all I had until after level 80, when I got lucky with seekers oils and 2 pure aethers.

But I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you haven't gotten far in extreme yet. My very first extreme random game using my siren nature ice strategy was my luckiest, but I lost at level 169. I got lucky and didn't leak for the first 80 levels. (I agree not leaking early IS luck, but leaking early does not mean you will lose!) I got way better luck with seekers oils and items. Mind you I didn't get a single panda dress all game in the game I won until in the bonus level where I found one in my stash.

So how did I still lose in the first game? I didn't understand how difficult extreme was so I kept the item find/quality gear, kept converting oils, and didn't concern myself with nonimmune stun towers. So I wasn't able to keep an immune boss stunned. Last version hard mode with my item luck that game I would of been 5-10 hitting that immune boss. But this version, if you're not using a broken tower (silencer, volj'in) even a decked out carry will require at least 50 shots to kill a boss. So tip for you: MINIMIZE your bad luck by getting towers that are able to slow down/stun/immobilize every type of wave there is. Or you will die. +400% item find/quality is no longer enough to win you the game.

*IMPORTANT: I thought I made this clear in my oil and item section, you need to re-evaluate priorities in extreme if you want to win. Item luck is no longer your #1 priority for the first 60 levels. Surviving is. If you can get through the first 60 levels with at least 30% lives and you have some good support towers and you've stopped struggling with every wave, then you can begin taking more risks with items and oils by putting on the item find/quality gear and converting oils.

The_heaven wrote:
you should really tryout the blizzard-troll in mid/late when you got some other freeze towers in addition (frozen wyrm+well+ icy flower or astral/nature triggerchance-aura). if you are itemlucky and get like 4*pandadress this tower is gg no re (aoe-permastun for sure for non-immune)


Thank you. I'll add that to the recommendations. Troll might even work on immunes? Stuns usually do, especially since this is an aoe spell. It's not specifically cast on the creep.

_________________
<Nubz> i wanna have my own farm
<Nubz> where i can grow all my own foods
<Nubz> and have my own animals
<@mOck_> you just want that stuff to lure little children over with a petting zoo
<@mOck_> i know your tactic


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing Extreme Difficulty
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:56 am 
Offline
YouTD Admin
YouTD Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 10:51 pm
Posts: 1689
Location: Texas/New Jersey(Azeroth)
YouTD Score: 168
its stun will not work because it is a ondamage event for the spell. If the spell never deals damage in the first place, then it wont stun. Also the way the blizard spell is casted is by clicking on te unit you want to cast on, and you cant click on immunes with spells like that, so it wont ever be casted in first place.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing Extreme Difficulty
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:25 am 
Offline
Power User

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:25 am
Posts: 1778
Location: Earth
YouTD Score: 5
Thanks for illuminating that mock :P . Strange that Frozen Spirit still casts its nova on immunes and slows them.

_________________
<Nubz> i wanna have my own farm
<Nubz> where i can grow all my own foods
<Nubz> and have my own animals
<@mOck_> you just want that stuff to lure little children over with a petting zoo
<@mOck_> i know your tactic


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing Extreme Difficulty
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:41 am 
Offline
YouTD Admin
YouTD Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 10:51 pm
Posts: 1689
Location: Texas/New Jersey(Azeroth)
YouTD Score: 168
thats not really a cast, its an attack and it doesnt even use frost nova, it just makes the effect at the location and iterates to slow if i remember right.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing Extreme Difficulty
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:09 am 
Offline
Light User

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:28 am
Posts: 14
@Nubz
i tried extreme with my lvl 16 naga and failed a lvl. 63, damn armor+ sol .... to my questions now, with lvl 16 you do not have many points to spend at the master of wisdom, so which should you choose first? is it better to go dmg/crit or atk.spd/loot? maybe you can add this also to your guid, which is the "correct" order for the wisdom points to spend.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing Extreme Difficulty
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:25 am 
Offline
Power User

Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:25 am
Posts: 1778
Location: Earth
YouTD Score: 5
I have a keeper of wisdom section in my basic 360 guide, which holds for playing extreme as well, but I can add it to this guide as well. :P

If you're playing naga and level 16, don't get attack speed because you already have +30%. Loot, spell damage, damage, or food mastery would be my top 4 choices. If you're playing to get to level 40 or 50, just trying to see how far you can get in extreme, then go spell dmg + dmg. If you think you can survive to level 100+, then you might want to substitute spell damage for loot.

Food mastery is very important but you can always just use your plants and chickens to increase your food. Technically dmg mastery is 8% on each tower, so that's two? common oils on every tower (not counting level bonus from the oil). Food mastery is like 16 common plants. So yeah food mastery is very useful to get but dmg and spell dmg masteries help you survive, especially useful with naga siren because you start with lower dmg/spell dmg. Safest choice is to get the the dmg or spell dmg masteries and just use food as you get it along the way.

_________________
<Nubz> i wanna have my own farm
<Nubz> where i can grow all my own foods
<Nubz> and have my own animals
<@mOck_> you just want that stuff to lure little children over with a petting zoo
<@mOck_> i know your tactic


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing Extreme Difficulty
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:25 pm 
Offline
User

Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:44 pm
Posts: 80
seeker oil is aoe


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing Extreme Difficulty
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:00 pm 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:05 pm
Posts: 356
kevs926 wrote:
seeker oil is aoe

did you just comment on a more than 3 year old thread to point that out? like seriously?

this is why I have doubts for the future of human beings...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing Extreme Difficulty
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:15 am 
Offline
New User

Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:14 am
Posts: 1
Nubz wrote:
I was going to update my other topic but most of the strategies I used in the previous version don't work on Extreme. This mode requires a different style of play. Although I am still not sure is it just extreme mode or is every mode harder in 3.1? I can't figure out what it is but it seems like towers do smaller best hits on the scoreboard/creeps take longer time to kill. Can an admin tell me if I'm imagining things or not? Medium difficulty in 3.1 almost seems like last version's hard.

I'll try to organize this better than my last topic lol.

Table of Contents
1. Towers
2. Consumables
3. Items
4. Strategies


1. Towers

A) Support towers

I'm going to talk about support first because support towers are your best friends in Extreme. You need to have about 4 out of 5 towers dedicated to support, if not more. Creeps are now so strong that it might take your carry tower 10 to 20 shots to kill one Normal creep after level 100. If you don't have creeps slowed/stunned to a crawl then you will lose.

The dilemma with support is having towers that can stun/immobilize IMMUNE creeps. Options:

Sacred Altar
Forest Amazon
Rooting Chasm
Steel Trap
Grabo Bot
Circle of Wind
Wind Totem
Frosty Rock
Frozen Wyrm

There's probably a few more in Astral, Darkness, Fire but I can't think of anything right now. You should still not forget towers that only stun nonimmune creeps because some of them are very powerful, such as Icy Spires, Solar Conductor, etc... the_heaven mentioned below that cold troll is really powerful paired up with other slow/stun ice towers late game.

So based on this list unfortunately you MUST use either Nature, Iron, Storm, or Ice in order to stun or immobilize immune creeps.

Lastly, micro your support towers! Just having them pewpewing random crap is not enough anymore. You need to hotkey them, preferably have multiple groups of them hotkeyed, so you can micro them at 2 or 3 creeps simultaneously. You don't want them all hitting 1 creep while the others run by.

B) Choosing a carry tower:

I've tried every one of the big 5 carry towers from last version and none of them seem to cut it anymore, which is scary. If you love physical damage, your best bet is Astral Healing Shrine + Sun Paladin + Solar Emitter. Otherwise, I noticed that with the crazy fast armor/hp increase in creeps as the game progresses in Extreme, it's a lot better to rely on hybrid towers that deal decent spell + physical damage rather than towers that specialize in one of the two categories. You'll get lower best hits / multicrits, but your carry tower will be able to handle a wider variety of wave types.

I don't think it would be feasible to have 2 carry towers just because creeps have so much hp in Extreme that you need all the items you can get, but if you're splitting kills between two towers, that means you'll have to split seekers oils between those two towers, which means less/worse items. The same problem existed last version in hard, but you could get away with 2 carries because creeps didn't scale in hp / armor as fast.

Below is a hybrid list of lategame carry towers you should consider.

Hybrid Carry Towers:
Nature- Bonk, Huntress, Garden of Eden
Astral- haven't tried as main yet. I'm sure Vol'jin is awesome here. Divine Priest, Warrior of Light, Star Watcher, Ancient Owlbear.
Darkness- Dreadlord, Soul Vault
Ice- Frozen Spirit (low physical damage yes but it's probably your best bet). Also try Icy Spires as a carry. It doesn't do spell damage but the % damage is excellent against any non immunes, and physical damage is better than Frozen Spirit's.
Storm- Red Lightning Conductor (same as Frozen Spirit), haven't tried Harpy yet, she could be good.
Iron- Golden Queen. Marine or Sniper? Lol, nothing great for iron.
Fire- Fire Battery, Fire Lord, Living Volcano

Also, some new and updated towers that have carry potential. They aren't hybrids, but these are great midgame and stay solid lategame:
Vulshok - yep I was wrong sorry for giving you a hard time boekie. +3% attack speed Special on Vulshok made him grow a lot faster, so he's now a pretty strong carry tower if you get him early.
Zealot - Need to have deep pockets to set up because you need expensive towers around him. Also Zeal only works for at most 6 towers in the current version instead of 8 like it should. Even so Zealot's a decent tower with great lategame potential when you get more slow towers so he can max out on Zeal / Phase Blade.
Gatling Gun - If you like building near the spawn point and sending waves fast, try this tower out. You can get huge bonus damage on it if you keep sending out waves. Even going one wave at a time, this tower is now worth making your carry through level 120. Great update on it.


2. Consumables

Unfortunately being risk loving does not work in Extreme. I learned this the hard way by converting my oils into a few lucky seekers oils early in one game and then leaking massively because I didn't have enough dps. Theoretically you could still get away with converting all your dps oils trying to get an early seekers, but you'd have to get incredibly lucky with wave types.

Instead, I've now become risk averse! Yeah... I know it's ridiculous. I use dmg/crit/spell dmg oils as early as I can. It helps having a plan - at least know which tower you'll replace to be your carry later on, and pump oils into it early. I still convert force books, food, exp oils, mana oils, and sometimes attack speed oils. Why attack speed oils? It just depends on what carry you'll be using. If you're going to use Huntress you'll already have such a huge increase in attack speed, you'd be better off converting your attack speed oils to get some more damage/spell damage/crit.

The big change I've done is I now consider bounty oils valuable. Since the script now saves partial gold values and accumulates them into more gold, and since incoming in Extreme mode is insanely difficult, bounty oils are now your friends. Use them immediately on your strongest tower. You're going to need every last gold coin you can get. However, I still urge caution about using divine bounty oils. Unless you know you always have income problems, I suggest you convert those divine bounty oils into a unique consumable.


3. Items

My item philosophy is now more risk averse as well. If you watch my extreme 360 replay, you'll see that at about level 60 I had gotten a a few decent item find/quality items but in about 3 out of 4 waves I was using a bloodthirsty axe and the hammer that gives you 100% chance to crit every 5 hits. You're going to need to juggle your items a lot in Extreme. You won't be able to get away with item find/quality items on your carry all the time.

Consider the tradeoff: if your carry has dps items, it gets kills faster, and it gets more kills. Lategame when you have bonus item find/quality on it from seekers oils, you want your carry to get as many kills as possible.

On the other hand, if your carry has item find/quality items, it gets more/better items, but it will get less kills. This is the problem I've often experienced: my carry tower ceases being my carry because more than half the kills are being stolen by other towers. This is good because other other towers are getting experience, but this is bad because your average item find/quality on kill is being diluted. In the long run, item find/quality is more important than experience on support towers. In fact, with the right items you can quickly level up your support towers.

Conclusion: Balance your item find/quality and dps items. Even if you are not struggling through waves, pay attention to which tower(s) are getting the most kills. If your carry is losing a lot of kills to another tower, you may need to give it some dps items. Keep in mind that this is only a mid and lategame problem. Early game you want at least a few towers leveling up high so you can get some strong support towers mid game. Also early game all your towers have equal item find/quality, so it doesn't matter which one gets the kills.


4. Strategies

I'm not qualified to talk about strategies in depth since I've only beaten Extreme with one strategy. :lol: But if you guys want to contribute your own strategies that you've found successful, I can add them here.

I used Naga Siren, Ice + Nature. Later I got iron, astral, and darkness.
-aim for at least 3 rooting chasms, and keep them hotkeyed. They are worth upgrading and leveling because eventually you will replace them with strong support towers like Frozen Amazon, which will benefit from a high level.
-early game always nice to have a plant. Even if it is not op anymore, the fast exp gain is great. I typically level it to level 10-15 and then replace with a tower more useful with Naga Siren.
-if you get frosty rocks or their upgraded versions in random mode, build them. They are very good with Naga Siren.
-Annoyed Tree is one of the best early - midgame carries with nature for Siren.
-Furbolg is actually much better than Jungle Stalker with Siren.
-Huntress may be even better than furbolg! Her abilities are all triggered, so she gets along nicely with Siren.
-Take advantage of all the new cheap ice towers Simulation de rachat de crédit have trigger chances: ice whelp, cold troll, frost root, and there's probably a few more I haven't tried yet.

In general, spam towers like crazy when you see an armored boss on the horizon. Chasms don't affect bosses, and early game armored on Extreme is one tough cookie.

Thanks for reading,

<3,

Nubz

it's so long, thank you


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group