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 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing 360
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:25 am
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Sigh... Uniques are not meant to be the strongest towers in the game. Unique towers are unique because well... they are unique. Ancient Energy Converter is a more exciting tower than a Burrow. It has nothing to do with how strong the tower is.

However, there's a lot more good carries now in 3.1. Silencer and Witch Doctor will probably still be good after the bugs are fixed. Dreadlord and Soul Vault are good unique carries for darkness. Frozen Wyrm for ice, Bonk and magic mushroom (for nonimmunes) for nature. There's plenty of solid unique carries now...

If you're having trouble beating extreme with these carries... YOU SHOULD BE. Extreme isn't supposed to be beaten.

<Nubz> i wanna have my own farm
<Nubz> where i can grow all my own foods
<Nubz> and have my own animals
<@mOck_> you just want that stuff to lure little children over with a petting zoo
<@mOck_> i know your tactic

 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing 360
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:24 pm
Posts: 208
You know I only play 120 and couldn't care less about beating any version of YouTD.

It just frustrates that there's all these new towers in the game now and I've just no idea what they do lol :)

I play Storm, get Red Ball Lightning and then, well why bother with anything else. I know it's not all about the big crits, but some of these new Uniques are so confusing with there mass of abilities that it's really hard to tell whether they're doing anything useful at all :)

 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing 360
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:18 pm 
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screamingabdab wrote:
I play Storm, get Red Ball Lightning and then, well why bother with anything else. I know it's not all about the big crits, but some of these new Uniques are so confusing with there mass of abilities that it's really hard to tell whether they're doing anything useful at all :)

I disagree all new towers are too confusing, but we do have a lot of confusing, overcomplicated towers.

That's why geX made a post about it : P

 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing 360
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:08 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: The Basic Guide for Playing 360
PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 6:32 am
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Nubz wrote:
* = New addition

Since a lot of people have been asking how to beat 360, I'll summarize my viewpoint:

*How many elements you should research in the beginning:
The safe answer here is 2. You get an equal level of each element and go from there. But you can be successful with 3 elements. For example, Nature + Ice are your main 2, a classic combo. But you can also put 1 into iron and get some dividends. You use iron for wooden traps, rowing boat, coin machine, and believe it or not you can get unique towers with just 1 in an element.

The major downside of 3 elements is your towers may clutter with useless trash much faster. If you're playing upgrade mode, the iron towers in the above example will be useless because you won't be able to upgrade them. But if you keep it at 1 into iron, you won't get too many iron towers. Getting a 3rd element is mainly to provide some cheap support towers that are useful in their first family member. If you're playing full random, the 3 element strategy is a LOT better because you can get upgraded versions of every tower. Yay!

1 element: this is for risk loving people that have a level 10+ code. 1 element rarely works, but if you insist on trying it, the best 2 elements to try it with are nature or iron. Fire and storm are actually very strong alone until level 60+. Maybe with the new storm/fire towers in the next version both will be viable 1 element strategies to beating 120.
Advantages of one element: least amount of tower clutter. Best chance to get the towers you want.
Disadvantages of one element: limited availability of strategies, usually weaker against 1-2 armor types. For example iron has problems with myt armor.

*When to stop researching an element:
There's no point getting 15 in ice if you've already gotten your frozen igloo, icy flower, frozen obelisk, and frozen well. If you got astral just to get a sun paladin, and you got one, stop putting more points into astral.

Just keep in mind things like that ^. Sometimes if you're doing well you can afford to max your main 2 elements, but it's often better to start on a 3rd early. Once you get the common/uncommon towers you need in your main 2 elements, you don't care about tower clutter, so it makes a lot more sense to research another element.

*Keeper of Wisdom:
It's been a long time since I wasn't level 72 haha. But while there are some general rules of thumb, in my view it all depends on what hero you are playing.
In general: force point and mana regen/pool masteries are the least important. Mana regen/pool adds a lot % wise, but unless you are fond of strategies with towers like batteries, burning torch, necro altar, lightning rod, this mastery won't do much to help your dps.
Food/attack speed masteries are great with any hero.
Panda: Item find mastery is rather pointless here. You already have -75%, a 12% bonus won't do much here. However food mastery is even more awesome with panda. You need to start with more food because you won't be getting many food consumables. And you can afford to forgo other masteries for food because panda already has such awesome bonuses.
Barbarian: Obviously mana regen/pool is useless here. Spell damage is 2nd most useless. If you like spell damage use all your spell dmg oils on one tower with Barb. But getting a +10% spell dmg bonus for all your towers is pointless. You'll just be tickling creeps. The crit mastery should be researched with Barb. He already has great crit/dmg bonuses, so you might as well capitalize on that and increase the chance by another 4%.
Naga Siren: If you're level 10-20 you may want to forgo attack speed mastery to max dmg/spell dmg masteries. You already gain a large bonus to attack speed, but the dmg/spell dmg malus is only 25% each, so the masteries actually help a lot in improving the malus.

Towers that are (officially) not broken and amazing carries:
-Healing Shrine
-Bug City
-Frozen Wyrm
-Jungle Stalker

There's a lot of other good carries but these are the big 5. Burrow does the highest late game damage because of the armor penetration, healing shrine has huge dps and nice 1000 range, bug city has fast attack speed and high damage, and frozen wyrm has huge splash, op slow/stun, and decent damage and range (850?). Late game jungle stalker is the weakest of these 5 towers, but early game he is the strongest carry in the game. If you've gotten him at level 30, you know what I mean. You can sit back for the next 5+ rounds and just watch him pewpew.

So late game (level 150+) if you're using jungle stalker, you should switch to one of the other 4 carries.

The best non-broken support towers for adding dps:
-Sun Paladin
-Kodo Beast
-Green Dragon Roost
-Dragon Sorcerer
-Cruel Flames
-Darkness/Storm Battery

Note: always add your carry to a buff group and set your buff towers to buffing it. Example: click on burrow, type "-add 1", click on sun paladin, type "-set 1".

Sun Paladin is so good that when you get him just replace your highest level tower that's not your carry with him. At level 25 he adds +200% damage to your carry. Yeah... wow. Kodo Beast is just awesome. He also has instant kill lol. Green Dragon Roost is like 2x tears of god. Dragon Sorc. adds multi crit and attack speed and what not, mainly late game you like him because of the multi crit. Cruel Flames adds crit chance. Very useful. Dark/storm battery have great debuffs.

*Multicrit: As tomy said (read his post below on this page), high multicrit is not very useful anymore. But some games you won't get even a single tears of god for 100 levels, so you need support towers that fill in this role. With towers + tears + items you should aim for at least 5 multicrit. If you have 10+ you're doing great. You may even want to replace your green dragon roost/dragon sorc. with slow/stun/aura towers. But getting 10 multicrit is very difficult, so these support towers will be your friends in most games.

There's other great support towers for adding dps, like wolves den, skeleton mage, and geothermal refinery. But both wolves den and geo grant additive bonuses that lose a lot of punch late game. Cruel Flames and Sun Paladin are also additive but their bonuses are a lot more powerful.

Great Support Towers in general:
Monolith of Chaos (my personal favorite)
Sacred Altar
Icy Core
Icy Spires
Frozen Wyrm
Frozen Well
Time Manipulator
Steel Trap
Grabo Bot
Frozen Obelisk
Frozen Igloo

solar panels Conductor
Circle of Storm
Magic Battery
Soul Vault

There's a lot more. Don't forget all the other ice slow towers you should take advantage of if using ice. Rooting chasms for nature are decent, wind totem for storm, haunted rubble for darkness, caged fire/burning watchtower for fire. I'm sure I missed a few more. But those in the list above are the best ones.

Sexy early-mid game carry towers:
Fire- *Burning Torch (great dps even without the spell, I sometimes make this with Barbarian), Fire Sprayer (best with naga), Brazier/Burning Fire Pit (best with Barbarian), Turtle (best with Barbarian (just kidding :mrgreen: )), Fire Defender (awesome damage), Elemental Ghost, Fire Battery (amazing mid game if Overload is used only when necessary, if possible save mana for challenges).
Ice- Ice Defender, Frozen Mushroom, Ice Mine, Frosty Rock, Icy Spirit (amazing vs non immunes)
Darkness- Tombstone (with naga), Necro Altar (good with all except Barb), lost soul (beware of immunes), bug nest
Iron- A LOT of good carries. *Sniper (awesome vs bosses/air, the aoe spell negates the malus vs masses, just make sure you micro him to attack champions in norm waves), iron defender, trash heap, burrow, obelisk of fortuity (beware of levels 1-10, this tower will miss a lot), rowing boat (yes it is a strong carry, but beware of air), solar collector/conductor (really high single target spell damage), marine (underrated tower, good spell damage). I do not suggest using silver knight to carry.
Nature- Just about every nature tower is a carry. I'm not joking lol. Cactus, Plant, Shrub, Furbolg, Stalker, Decaying Obelisk (the one that makes a hideous sound, it's actually pretty strong).
Astral- Minor magic ruin (astral's version of plant, awesome early game tower, I often convert it to priest at level 15), Priest (level 10+), healing obelisk, elementalist (beware of immunes)
Storm- Circle of Wind (when it is fixed will be a great carry, especially with naga siren), lightning generator (beware of immunes), lightning rod (underrated tower, but beware of spell res/immunes), flashing grave (beware of regen waves), storm lantern, storm column, red lightning generator (amazing vs non immunes)

Extremely Sexy Towers (do not make if you are under 18 years of age):
Witch Queen- huge item find bonus, decent spell damage, great range and attack speed, essence damage
Ray Blaster- item find/quality bonus. You can apply it much faster and to more creeps than Witch Queen's buff.

The way you treat your oils depends on whether you are risk averse, neutral, or loving :P . I'm pretty reckless so early game I usually convert every oil, even dmg/crit/spell dmg in the hopes of getting seekers oils. Sometimes it works, but more often it doesn't. If you don't mind wasting 3-4 valuable oils and getting a force book, bounty oil, food consumable, or exp oil, then you love risk!

*Rule of Thumb: save and convert oils only when you are doing well in the game. If you are struggling, you should use all the oils you can. What's the point of saving if you won't survive long enough to convert them into better stuff?

Attack Speed Oils: Their utility decreases greatly after you have about 200% bonus attack speed on your carry, so use them on your best support towers as well! If you've never seen a max attack speed icy spires, you've been missing out.

If you're risk neutral obviously you use the valuable oils but you convert the less valuable stuff. Less valuable stuff = force books, bounty oils, exp oils, food.

A lot of people will say no don't convert food but honestly you shouldn't need more than 100 food to win. Recently I've been converting all my food items, keeping the 76 food I start with from the keeper of wisdom's food mastery, and I've been doing fine. If you often find yourself at 100 + food and still in need of more, re-evaluate your strategy. Chances are you have too many superfluous towers.

If you're risk averse I guess you just use everything although really you shouldn't use bounty oils unless you are having gold problems, you should rarely feel the need to use exp oils, and you shouldn't use force books unless you really need a rare/unique tower immediately and are short force points.

Similar to oils, if you have a bunch of crappy commons/uncommons just convert em! Oh noes afraid of converting your +5% dmg short sword? Do it. God will forgive you. Those crappy items are there to be converted.

*But don't convert every common item lol.*
I love the +15% dmg to race items. Very very very very useful early game. Magic Vial is a gg early game item for all magic waves. Purifying gloves, trainees helm are awesome toys to have by your side. Workbench is homo, use if you want to get spat at by old ladies.

There's a lot I can potentially go into with items, but I'm too lazy. Just use your items well kids, and you will be rewarded. If you get a spider web, keep it in your hero's inventory for air waves. That executioner's axe that adds +100% dmg to humanoids, KEEP THAT BALLER ON YOUR HERO and pop it onto your carry for humanoid waves. Same with magic vial, sucona, you get the point.

Finally remember that even knowing all dis is not enough Young Jedi. It's all about how to put it in practice. 95% of games you won't get the towers you want (assuming you're not playing build mode). So get used to being more flexible. As shown in the labyrinths above ^, there are a LOT of towers that can help you pwn. You don't need a jungle stalker before level 40 if playing nature to do good. Stay cool. Relax. Listen to some Queen.

So this brings me to strategies. I'd rather just talk about strategies on a question/answer basis. If you have any questions about strategies with X and Y elements, in certain situations, etc, just ask.

I will say one rule of thumb though: Almost always better to spend gold than to leak. If you leak you'll probably only earn like 10-50 extra interest from saving gold, but you'll have to spend sometime within the next few rounds anyway because your towers are too weak. You don't earn as much gold as you think because you didn't get the gold from killing the creeps. Also you missed out on potential items and experience

Very nice informative post.. I do love these games.. Very exciting and still love to play these games with my friends.

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