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 Post subject: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:33 pm 
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Few days ago i had some really nice game where i didnt have to wait too long * to get some rare/unique towers; I had storm/ice races and got 2 converters (unique for storm) and icy flower + icy spire (rare towers for ice). So i really expected to go quite far. I even killed the challenge at lvl 88 (thx the spire). But then the next level came a wave of 10 creeps with a "champion", with 230 armor and magic immunity. What are we expected to do ? Personnally i watched them go through. Actually i killed one (thx the spire again) and maybe by targetting distinct creeps with the spire i could have killed a bit more but i was so pissed that i did nothing.

So my question is: GeX, do you really mean it ? Or you forgot that among the "double abilities" there was this insane combination ?

Actually it happened to me more than once but in earlier levels the hp is better adjusted.

Also there is a post from someone saying he "owned" YOU! TD in v0.3 but i found nothing about 0.4. My personal best for 0.4 is level 103, i also got once to 101, but tbh i usually "die" between 75 and 95. If someone reaches lvl 120 in this version please post the replay, i'd be interested ^^

Apart from this i have a bunch of comments to make, mostly balance issues, but i don't know if you expect such comments now since the towers are still under construction... Anyway your TD rox, good job.

--------------
* hell ! sometimes it is desesperating. Level 13 in 2 races at about lvl 60-65 and at lvl 85 still nothing except batteries...and I'm talking about races where there are some special towers, not about nature.


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:14 am 
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You can always post balance suggestions, it's nice to hear from people what they think of the map.


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:37 am 
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That armor can be mixed up with magic immunity is a bug. I think i forgot putting them into a non-combine group :?


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:52 am 
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geX wrote:
That armor can be mixed up with magic immunity is a bug. I think i forgot putting them into a non-combine group :?


lol
and what about strong + immune?


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:34 pm 
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OK nice to hear it ^^.
Immune creeps are manageable until some point but after later it's becoming too hard. Immune + hard is also insane indeed, a bit less though.


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:57 pm 
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excuse me if this question is retarded, but what are "converters" ?


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:05 pm 
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pixartist wrote:
excuse me if this question is retarded, but what are "converters" ?



The unique storm tower: "ancient energy converter", the one with the flying energy balls.


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:07 pm 
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Perhaps we should add a fulltext search to the tower browser....


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:08 pm 
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Natac wrote:
Perhaps we should add a fulltext search to the tower browser....


Good idea.
But geX has some other priorities at the moment i think.


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 1:23 pm 
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In that topic of creeps abilities, it seems to me that some abilites are overrated and some are dramatically underrated, and it's going worse for double abilities.
For instance divine armor+ xx speed is overrated : creeps get raped instantly by spell towers like buried souls or lightning generators. Same for most doubles as long as "strong" "80% magic red" and "immmune" are not involved.

These 3 are really harder. In particular i think immune make a too high proportion of your towers totally or nearly useless and they should always come as a single ability: not only you loose the benefit of you spells (and of support towers that increase spells like dark batteries, light batteries, soul vault, lightning balls and maybe some others) but you also loose the benefit of your towers with magic dmg (for the lightning gen it is not negligeable). Going from a 150% dmg to most creeps to a sudden 0% is a bit to abrupt.
I even ask to remove immune creeps (let me try^^).

The thing is that at the moment there are only 5 basic (uncommon class) towers with spells: lightning generator, buried souls, rooted charms, ice mine and the sewer connexion. Some races dont' have such kind of towers yet (iron, fire, astral). Light gen and buried souls are very powerful killers while the other 3 are only support towers. So it is may be too early to talk about balance issues. But for sure all races except storm and darkness badly need some strong spell casters.

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edit: i just had a game that illustrates what is said above, here is the replay:
Attachment:
File comment: imba immune - imba icy spire
youTD(v0.4)_imba-icy-spire.w3g [349.79 KiB]
Downloaded 165 times

It also shows that the icy spires is the wtf tower of this version. With the effect of soul vault and other towers that increase spell dmg, it almost one-hits everything, including challenges at levels 88 and 104. All later levels are cleared quite easily, except immune ones were i leak bad.
The things to be seen are :
  • levels 77 and 86 : immune boss (without icy spire it is impossible to kill).
  • levels 88 and 104 : challenge almost one-hit (bug in icy spires ??).
  • levels 103 and 111 : 10 immune creeps (with 1 champ in lvl 103).
It is clear that immunes are 1000 times harder to kill. At level 111 the creeps armor is Myt which takes 180% dmg from element and i have Frost wyrms level 22, icy spires level 20 something to which i gave all potions, icy core level 18, + few other elemental towers and they hardly damage the creeps.


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:40 am 
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p0pe.kh0rne wrote:
It also shows that the icy spires is the wtf tower of this version. With the effect of soul vault and other towers that increase spell dmg, it almost one-hits everything, including challenges at levels 88 and 104..


So you really dare to say immune is imba instead of saying ice spires is totally overpowered?


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:43 am 
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A tower that one-hits a creep is always overpowered :-D


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:16 am 
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I think the point he wants to tell us, is immune disables 15% of the towers and 100% spells, which is to much. And if u get the rounds only by the spells, its really hard to come along with an immune wave.


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:20 am 
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Yeah but the replay is a clear example for the need of immune waves.
If there are no immune waves spell towers will own all creep waves, this is not intented :-D


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 Post subject: Re: magic immunity and 230 armor, are you serious ?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:28 am 
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boekie wrote:
Yeah but the replay is a clear example for the need of immune waves.
If there are no immune waves spell towers will own all creep waves, this is not intented :-D
Dont watched the replay. But the argumentation "we need immune, cause otherwise spells are imba" is nearly the same as "Remove hard immune waves, cause spells doesnt work".

Perhaps we underestimate some spells, so they need to be rebalanced. But balance them by adding immune waves doesnt seems to be a real solution to me. If the damage of all towers are to high, will the solution be adding hard skin to balance this?


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